This is probably not good news for us

Obama administration believes that the Muslim Brotherhood has renounced violence and should be encouraged to go forward in Egypt. If you’re not part of the administration and want to know about these people who assassinated Anwar Sadat and sent Osama bin Laden on his way, you really should read The Looming Tower and then be afraid – be very afraid. We have idiots guiding us in Washington.

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17 responses to “This is probably not good news for us

  1. JRH

    Actually, CF, the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt has renounced violence and hasn’t committed or condoned violence in that country in more than 60 years. Sinn Fein sits in the Irish, EU and UK parliaments.

  2. JRH

    Also, Chris, your history is totally wrong — the Muslim Brotherhood did not assassinate Sadat. Sadat actually released many of the Brotherhood members that Nasser had imprisoned, and Sadat was assassinated by a member of a violent, more radical group that broke away from the Brotherhood called Tanzim al-Jihad.

  3. Libertarian Advocate

    They are after all the one’s they’ve been waiting for….

  4. Chris

    that’s why Ginsberg recommended having our puppet Baradi be the next egyptian president. After all he is pro Israel…that is good for all of us.

  5. Eric

    Yeah, but what choice does the US Govt have? It can’t side with the dictator because it fears what will replace him, right? What statement would that make across the Middle East — that the US values freedom and democracy, except when it leads to a result that it finds distasteful?

  6. Chris

    Israel wants the dictator MubaraKKK to stay in power. Israel is the almighty decider. We have to obey.

  7. Anonymous

    The U.S. government loves democracy only when the results suit its agenda.

  8. JRH

    Not to beat a dead horse here, CF, but here’s some analysis from West Point of all places that documents how the Brotherhood is entirely at odds with al-Qaeda:

    http://www.newamerica.net/sites/newamerica.net/files/events/CTCAQ.pdf

    To quote a bit from it, the Muslim Brotherhood “has consistently denounced al‐Qa’ida’s ideology and terrorist activities in Muslim countries
    and in the West. It offers a significantly different vision of an Islamic state from that favored by Salafi jihadist groups. As an Islamist movement with global reach and a message that resonates widely with Arab publics, the MB represents the strongest challenger to al-Qa’ida and like-minded groups within Islamist politics—far stronger than the more liberal and Westernized secular Muslims or pro-American activists with which the United States generally prefers to work. Its leaders speak the language of democracy, reject extremism and takfir, and advocate peaceful political participation.”

  9. Anonymous

    Thanks, JRH.
    More people need to see this!

    • Before you jump for joy, read the Looming Tower (which won a Pulitzer – this isn’t one of my whacko favorite authors). There are two very distinct views on this organization; I hope that JRH is right and I am wrong. But ….

  10. JRH

    Chris, Looming Tower makes clear that the Muslim Brotherhood as it presently exists is an ardent opponent of al-Qaeda, and describes how Zawahiri left Egypt and left their movement out of dismay with their embrace of nonviolence and democratic participation more than 30 years ago.

    To be clear, we shouldn’t jump for joy about the MB. They are still an Islamist movement, and even if they are nonviolent, they hold some more radical views (particularly on Israel and Hamas). But they are absolutely not Al-Qaeda in Egypt, and their influence (estimated to be about 20% of Egyptians) needs to be well understood — but not demagogued as the equivalent of the Taliban or AQ.

  11. JRH

    Chris — in light of this back-and-forth, I’m going to reread Looming Tower. I think if you did the same, you’d find that your memory of it has drifted a bit from what it actually says. Perfectly happy to be found wrong, by the way!

    • Let’s do it, JRH – I can’t promise to finish it before the weekend (although, if we’re going to be snowed in again this week, maybe sooner), and then let’s compare notes. All my best, Chris

  12. Old School Grump

    I am a big fan of The Looming Tower also, but if I remember correctly, the reporting ends in September 2001. So it may offer MB perspective that is excellent but far from up-to-date.

  13. not so anonymouse

    The Muslim Brotherhood just forced a Professor to divorce his wife of 40 years because they decided in light of his writings that he was not Muslim enough and could therefore not remain married to his muslim wife… Did anyone read the article the other day where 70 to 82% of the Egyptians interviewed agreed that hand chopping for theft and death for leaving Islam are good ideas…I fear that we are so desperate to approve of something Muslim that we are being completely blindsided by the Muslim Brotherhood. Walid Shoebat was one of them once and his statements regarding them today were not comforting…

  14. JRH

    @notsoanonymouse at 9:59:

    Yikes. Not a lot of fact-checking here, huh? First, we have the entirely unsubstantiated story about the MB forcing someone to divorce his wife. (Though how they forced him to do that in a country governed by a secular autocrat is not explained.) Then, there’s “an article” that says an overwhelming majority of Egyptians approve of barbaric, draconian physical punishments allegedly justified by Islamic law. You’ve clearly never been to Egypt, and have never read anything credible about the society. Egypt is a proudly modern state and society — the crown jewel of secular Arab nationalism. Mohammed el-Baradei, the secular Egyptian chosen as the informal head of the opposition movement (before that he was living in Vienna and working as head of the International Atomic Energy Agency), has agreed to work in a loose coalition with the MB, and has described them as representing 20% of the Egyptian population, including many professionals. The analogue we should be thinking of is a very conservative religious party. I don’t share many (if any) of their values. But the fact is, the Egyptian MB renounced violence years ago — and as Chris and other Looming Tower (re)readers will soon find out, that was when the folks like Zawahiri and other terrorists disassociated themselves with the MB movement.

    Oh, and notsoanonymouse? Walid Shoebat is a Palestinian who has claimed to be a member of the PLO’s militant wing. He is not in any way connected to the modern Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood.

    Folks, the Arab world and Muslim world are big, complicated, heterogeneous places. Even the smaller world of radical Islam is a cacophony of different organizations, individuals and ideologies. I really urge anyone who has a genuine interest in understanding these worlds — and the legitimately dangerous world of Islamism — to strive to understand the complexity and nuance involved in any real understanding of what these movements are, and what they mean for our country and the countries they operate in.