If you think this is Socialism……

“I hear all this, ‘well, this is class warfare, this is whatever’. No. There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody. You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear:

You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for; you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; you were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did.”

- Elizabeth Warren

46 Comments

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46 responses to “If you think this is Socialism……

  1. George Crossman

    That’s old news and what a crock. What do you mean “us”. You liberals never had a new idea nor contributed a damn thing.

  2. Dan

    Holy wow. She’s obviously not reading the stats. What percentage of the population pay no federal taxes? So who is this “rest of us” that paid for anything? What a joke.

  3. CatoRenasci

    From Instapundit:

    Group of friends of Stanford football post on a board called thebootleg.com On the current events board, we have debated the Warren comments. here was my response:

    “You built a factory out there? Good for you,” “Built a factory” is a summary for a lot of work. Put up equity, designed a business, took risk to buy land, get permits, pay property taxes and use taxes and permit fees. Then, bought a bunch of equipment and had it installed …and paid sales taxes. Hired some employees and paid them a bunch of money and paid payroll taxes on top of that. Bought a bunch of raw materials from companies that paid a bunch of salaries and a bunch of taxes. Building a factory is a huge private investment that pays the public a lot of taxes for the right to be built.

    “But I want to be clear: you moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for.” Between fuel taxes, license fees, tolls and various taxes on transportation related activities, the roads budget is smaller than the total tax take.

    you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; No, you did not educate them. You babysat them for 12 years. Then I hired them, taught them how to be responsible and show up for work, taught them how to communicate in clear sentences, taught them that there are rights and wrongs and (unlike with your schools) wrongs have consequences in the workplace. Then paid for extended education for my employees so they could continue to improve themselves and better add value to what we do around here.

    “You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for.” Funny, my factory has 24/7 security guards because the last time it was broken into, the police did not even bother to take a report, they just said “call your insurance company”. As for fire? The closest fire department is 10 miles away. My insurance company requires that I have a full wet sprinkler system to qualify for insurance because there is no local fire protection.

    “You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did.” Well, that is not exactly true. When the AFL-CIO tried to unionize my workforce, they staged three days of noisy protests outside my factory. The police forces just stood around and watched as the protesters intimidated my workers, vandalized their cars and destroyed my property.

    You say “we” like the government and society are the same. They aren’t. My company and my community and you politicians are not “we”.

  4. IDAHO

    Now that’s a lady I could vote for……….

  5. HG

    Would a marauding band really try to seize everything at my factory? This stuff looks hard to move: http://www.nwppsales.com/ Seems like they would just smash the stuff up. Is she under the impression that businesses are even locating factories in modern Massachusetts? I think there are some Cheesecake Factories opening in MA but I am thinking most new factories are in Texas, Ireland or Guangdong.

  6. nick

    I’ll match what most entrepreneurs have done for America like jobs, taxes, and new better products to her accomplishments anytime. Those taxes they pay cover the cost of much she spouted about. But this isn’t about class warfare-RIGHT!

  7. Cos Cobber

    Arent these the same talking points Chairman Mao used in 1949?

  8. Cos Cobber

    Oh, btw, the top 1% paid for 40% of that road, policeman. aircraft carrier, teacher and GM bailout that Elizabeth Warren is referring too. Perhaps, if she finds it useful to frame public economics in such a way, that the “rich” should get 40% of these services.

    And yes Dollar Bill, I’m kidding, so dont get all twisted thinking about having just .01% of a park bench to sit on.

    -Cos Cobber, not even remotely “rich”

  9. dollarbill

    NO! It’s good old-fashioned populism, that reflects the fact that the middle class is under attack like never before, under attack from faux populists like the Koch-funded Tea Party and clueless and selfish Randbots who view John Galt as their moral lodestar. If this is socialism, then call FDR and RFK and most of the American people “socialists.”

  10. Walt

    Of course it is socialism, you dip shit. Is this a rhetorical question?
    We built the roads for everyone. Hoping folks would build things. And the smart ones did, which created jobs. Which is good for everyone. It is called providing opportunity. For all. So the guys who provided opportunity now get penalized? Well that makes good common sense, right?
    “You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate”. We all paid to educate them. The wealthy paid more. And state dollars paid most of this. The Federal taxes, which you want to increase, were pissed away on the Department of Education, which should be abolished. Education is, and always should be, a local decision. And hiring works is a bad thing now, which we should penalize? You libtards actually believe that? Calling you misguided morons is being kind. You misguided moron.
    “You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did”. The number one goal of the Federal Government is to protect its citizens. Police, again, are local. And 50% of the country pays ZERO for this protection. The “rich” pay for 80% of it already,
    “But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along”. SOCIAL CONTRACT. Bullshit!! Because she says so? She admits it is socialist, and if we continue to elect officials who believe this, the capital – and the jobs – will leave. And we continue a downward spiral. It is cold hard economic reality.
    Selling any dirt while the Dude Man is away?
    Your Pal,
    Walt

    • Oddly, selling dirt. Got a whopper today. Thanks for the interest. You and the fillies interested in a little paddock-a-terre in the city? Always at your service

  11. Nat

    I have to hope that this is taken out of context because she’s talking about two separate issues. The Obama campaign-to-reelect is clearly us/them, class warfare stuff. That has very little to do with whether government has a role in society. No one is arguing that we shouldn’t pay taxes or that government is unnecessary. It merely is a question of degree of involvement and of someone’s distorted sense of fairness. To rationalize the aggressive posture this administration has taken to defend it’s record by making such a grossly ridiculous comment about our need for government is a position one would expect from a junior high school student producing a “C” paper.

  12. Walt

    Frankie –
    Let’s see if you post this before 2013. This is ABC News:
    (ABC News) — Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner didn’t dispute a Harvard economist’s estimate that each job in the White House’s jobs plan would cost $200,000, but said the pricetag is the wrong way to measure the bill’s worth.
    And he also pointed out, in an interview today with ABC News’ David Muir, that there is no other option on the table for getting the economy moving and putting more people back to work.
    “You’ve got to think about the costs of the alternatives,” Geithner said when asked about Harvard economist Martin Feldstein’s calculation that each job created by President Obama’s American Jobs Act would cost taxpayers about $200,000.
    “If government does nothing, it does nothing now because they’re scared by politics or they want to debate what’s perfect, then there will be fewer Americans back to work, the economy will be weaker,” he said.
    Are you frigging kidding me? They MUST be morons. No one is investing capital, buying equipment, or hiring people; because there is concern the government will just TAKE IT ALL!! You can’t see that?
    Promise to not raise taxes, keep a promise so people have confidence in our government, then jobs get created, those newly employed pay taxes, get off the dole, and everyone wins. Is that really too hard for you to see? It is basic economics. Or subscribe that 20% of the “rich” provide for the 80% who want a handout? That is the path of least resistance. That is the path we are on, and that is the path that inevitably leads downhill. Again, not rhetoric, just cold hard fact.
    You really don’t see that? Really?
    YOUR Pal,
    Walt

  13. Daniel

    It isn’t that we don’t need government, but we have too much. We would all be MUCH safer if you parked a cop and fireman on every corner. I am sure kids would learn much better one-on-one with a teacher. And don’t get me started on the amount of corruption in government building contracts. No, it isn’t that we don’t need government, but the size, scope and operation needs serious reform and reorganization. And that applies to MIC as well.

  14. Anonymous

    Here here

  15. Inagua

    It is not socialism; it is sophistry. Even a law professor should be able to understand that “the rest of us” who paid for the roads, police and schools included the people “who got rich.” In fact the rich generally pay a disproportionate share of the taxes, with the top 1% of paying something like 40% of all income taxes for example.

  16. Greenwich Old Timer

    Good quote. I happen to like Elizabeth Warren, from what little I’ve seen.

  17. Anonymous

    Earth to Elizabeth Warren: calm down and shut up! Your tirade is just plain stupid. Can it!

  18. Mr. 85 Broad St.

    Thinking like this really brings home the truth in the old William F. Buckley quote about preferring to be governed by the first 200 names in the Cambridge phone book as opposed to the Harvard faculty.

  19. OG17

    This is just socialist claptrap, thank god Warren was booted from the consumer protection agency (lets just wait and see how much that agency costs consumers). Obama and her are cut from the same community organizer cloth that we need government to succeed. No, we don’t have worry about maurauding bands but Obama and crew would love to see everyone pay 50% or more in taxes. They just get to take it from you via the IRS

    My Dad came to this country not speaking a word of english and was able to start a successful small business on his own. He was joking about remembering how easy it was since he had Elizabeth Warren helping him!

    If all this country spent money on was infrastructure and defense we would be in much better shape instead of wasting billions of dollars in agencies like HUD or “green jobs”. The Financial Times has an article today where Coca-Cola chief criticises US tax rules – Muhtar Kent says China is more business friendly than the USA.

    Liberalism and has lead us down a road where the Chinese Communists are in some ways more capitalistic than we are……

  20. dollarbill

    Sure nice to know that if we just keep shoveling more tax cuts to the oligarchs, our problems will be solved. I see supply side dogma is alive and well here on planet Teabag. Never mind the fact of growing income inequalities in this country, or the need for govt investment in infrastructure (dirty word to tea partiers). We should ignore all that, and shed a tear for our unfairly maligned plutocrat class who are being unfairly singled out for tax increases when it is they who are carrying this country on its back, while the “lucky ducky” poor and middle class whine about their fate, when they’ve never had it so good. Who will speak for the voiceless rich, I ask you? Who? Will such miscarriages of justice never cease?

  21. Anonymous

    Kyle Sullivan, a spokesman for Warren’s campaign, says the candidate “is speaking from the heart about the fight she’s waged her whole life to even the playing field so working families and small businesses get the opportunity to get ahead.”

    But Brian Walsh of the National Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee suggests Warren is being hypocritical with her comments.

    “Given the fact that Professor Warren was paid almost $200,000 by a major insurance company to help in their legal battle against asbestos victims — on top of her $350,000 salary at Harvard — it sounds like she’s speaking from experience when she says ‘there is nobody in this country who got rich on his own,’ ” Walsh said in an e-mail.

  22. Anonymous

    hey dollarbill just got his EBT card, so he’s all hopped up on oreos, soda, and doritos.

  23. Cobra

    A black guy, an illegal alien, a Muslim, and a socialist walk into a
    bar.

    The bartender asks, “What can I get you, Mr. President?”

  24. Inagua

    “Never mind the fact of growing income inequalities in this country…”

    Dollar Bill – Income inequality merely reflects talent inequality. People with the talent to game the system like the Solandra executives; or the talent to game the gullible like Al Gore; or the talent to sing, dance, act, or play ball; or the talent to start a producrive business; or even the talent to just work hard will always earn more unless someone like Stalin or Castro is running the government. Warren Buffett has averaged almost a billion a year for about forty years because he is about a hundred thousand times more talented than most of us. Get used to it, stop whining, and try to develop a skill that can earn you more money if it bothers you so much.

  25. HG

    dollarbill,
    Is the correct term plutocrat or oligarch? And can a plutocrat live on planet teaparty if pluto is not a planet? I get your preference for less income inequality although I am suspicious about that statistic because people have been claiming income has been getting more unequal for my whole life. At some point wouldn’t the low end just kinda starve out of existence or the top end would consist of one guy with all the money? Is it possible for numbers that have to add to GDP to continually get further apart? By the way, I am also suspicious of the statistic from the right that >50% of Americans pay no income tax. I know in my family of four the kids pay no income tax so I guess we are average. Maybe some of the kids in Greenwich pay income taxes.

  26. Peg

    Yeah, my liberal friends (not quite as moronic as Dollar Bill) say it’s all random luck.

    Fascinating how the ones who work damn hard, treat employees, customers, shareholders, friends very well seem to be “luckier” than others. The ones who save and invest, do all that they can well.

    Call me crazy – but – my guess is that if others modeled their lives after those who do well (with some exceptions) – they might be a little “luckier” themselves!

  27. Inagua

    “…I am also suspicious of the statistic from the right that >50% of Americans pay no income tax. I know in my family of four the kids pay no income tax so I guess we are average.”

    Please let me allay your suspicion. The figure of 46.5% comes from a joint operation of two liberal think tanks, the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution. It specifically excludes dependents like your children.

    http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbers/displayatab.cfm?DocID=3057

  28. Cos Cobber

    I’ll take so called “income inequality” born out of a meritocracy vs “opportunity inequality” when those in back rooms of government have dominate control of our future.

    In the 20th century, America was a shining light for capitalism, freedom and entrepunerial spirit. Imagine how much the world would not have evolved over the past 100 years if the US adopted a command and control economy. We lead the way on democracy and respect for free enterprise. If we hadnt, perhaps the world today would be darker and more like europe prior to WWII…controlled by facists with consolidated power at the central government power and political favors in lieu of free market- consumer lead – choices leading the way.

    I too am concerned with the growing income inequality and too that end, I’d like to see more pro small business attitude to empower lower income people to take control of their economic future.

  29. dollarbill

    Inagua says wealth and opportunity in this country are purely a reflection of talent, and to the most talented go the greatest rewards. Bullfeathers. Some of the most talented, most gifted people on the planet are teachers, yes, hard to believe teachers. Yes, they are the lifeblood of our community, much more so than overpaid bankers and endless hordes of real estate brokers (who needs so many?). Teachers are vastly underpaid despite the fact they contribute a helluva lot more to our society than all the Jamie Dimons in the world.

    As Big Bubba once said (channeling Liz Warren), “You know, there’s not a single solitary example on the planet, not one, of a country that is successful because the economy has triumphed over the government and choked it off and driven the tax rates to zero, driven the regulations to nonexistent and abolished all government programs except defense so people in my income group never have to pay a nickel to see a cow jump over the moon. There is no example of a successful country that looks like that.” –Bill Clinton (yes, our ex-President, what a friggin Commie thing to say, right guys?)

  30. Inagua

    “Some of the most talented, most gifted people on the planet are teachers… they contribute a helluva lot more to our society than all the Jamie Dimons in the world.”

    Jamie Diamond could probably walk into almost any K-12 classrooom in America and teach the class cold. How many teachers could walk into Jamie Diamond’s office and understand anything about running a bank? That is the reason why Jamie Diamond makes several hundred times what a teacher makes. He has a rare talent. Teachers don’t. They are mostly average nobodies who had low SAT scores.

  31. Cos Cobber

    Dollarbill, If a high income is important to one’s lifestyle then I suggest they do someting other than teach at a grade school. Try college or leaving teaching all together. The beauty of our current society is that you can decide to leave your profession, no matter what it is, and try something else. Move on if you are underpaid. No one is forcing any teachers teach. Jamie Dimon awaits a challenger in the banking arena, so far the competition has been mediocre. Perhaps the next banking conglomerate genius is teaching earth science at greenwich high.

    Switching gears a bit, personally, I think teacher wages start a little too low and end too high. However, until the arcane concept of tenure eliminated I will never feel sorry for teacher wages. Our kids, our taxpayers, our society deserves better and better means the ability to remove bad teachers, no matter if they have 2 years experience or 25 years.

    As for your Bill Clinton quote, its harding the winning argument. I dont think 1 in 10 conservatives would find fault with Clinton’s quote, meanwhile 10 out of 10 find Warren’s statement frightening.

  32. Inagua

    CC – I am surprised that you fell for Bubba’s silly strawman argument. The question is not what a hypothetical country with no government looks like, but what actual countries look like when there is almost no private sector, like the Soviet Union, Cuba and North Korea.

  33. pulled up in OG

    It ain’t just ghetto slobs as all y’all like to imply, Inagua. Your 46.5% also includes:

    2 million households with an average income of ~$95K pay no tax

    444,000 households with an average income of ~$265K pay no tax

  34. Cobra

    “Some of the most talented, most gifted people on the planet are teachers… they contribute a helluva lot more to our society than all the Jamie Dimons in the world.”

    Which is pure, unadulterated, steaming bull caca. A variation on George Bernard Shaw’s statement…

    “Those who can, do.
    Those who can’t, teach.
    Those who can’t teach, become community organizers.”

  35. Dan

    Hey – “pulled up in OG” – How do those ~2.4 million households pay no income tax? That’s a lot of income to deduct or hide away… maybe I have the wrong accountant, but that sounds straightup illegal.

  36. Inagua

    “It ain’t just ghetto slobs as all y’all like to imply, Inagua.”

    I didn’t imply anything, OG. I merely posted the data that HG found “suspicious.” I am glad you read and studied the data. Do you think this constitutes good tax policy?

  37. dollarbill

    Can someone please explain to me what extraordinary value that the Jamie Dimons of the world (BTW he is a Dem.) bring to the world, or Lloyd Blankfein that justify such obscenely high salaries? Is it their financial “innovations” such as the CDO or the MBS, the weapons of mass destruction that brought the economy to the brink of collapse? If you think Dimon deserves to be showered with dollars for the criminality and corruption that he and his ilk foisted on our country,all in the name of the “free market”, then you guys are sipping a variety of tea that Adam Smith himself would never had sipped. You guys and gals have truly jumped the shark!

  38. Anonymous

    dollarbill,

    Jamie Dimon manages the bank, JPMorgan Chase, which processes the EBT and SNAP cards for the fedgov, so you can get your free oreos, doritos, and sodas using other people’s money.

    You should revere Jamie; his bank is the actual instrument of your hallowed wealth redistribution.

  39. Inagua

    “Can someone please explain to me….”

    No one can explain anything to you because you have the mind of a child.

  40. pulled up in OG

    “I didn’t imply anything, OG.”

    Bullshit. The implication is there every time one of you masters of the universe mentions it.

  41. cos cobber

    Dollarbill, we are so far apart there isn’t much that can be said.

    As for dimon, i think he has done a good job and I don’t care that he’s a dem. I don’t view the world strictly in two tones.