Zero Hedge: it was all about who’ll be captain of the Titanic

Doesn’t matter who won, entitlement spending will eat us up. I tend to agree but really, what do I care? I’ll be out of here in 10-15 years, max, and children under thirty, including my own, voted overwhelmingly for continued entitlement spending, increased regulation, a dying economy and an ever-growing government. Fine – they wanted it, they’ll get it, and they’ll have to live in it. Not my problem. I’m going hunting, myself, while it’s still legal.

 

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68 responses to “Zero Hedge: it was all about who’ll be captain of the Titanic

  1. Cos cobber

    The people have spoken; entitlements, unions and expanded nanny state government to continue. A lot of my colleagues are wealthy democrats who supported Obama for round two….it will be interesting how they feel at the end of the second term when Obamacare taxes, new lower deduction rules and higher marginal rates kick in.

    Like you said, time to throw your hands up….

  2. Shoeless

    The repubs did themselves no favors by their treatment of Ron Paul supporters. The GOP’s core is too narrow and hopefully this opens their eyes to the problem, though I don’t see that happening by 2016, unless someone like Christie gets the nod.

  3. AAnon

    Deer season open soon in VT!! Duck season this weekend in northern zone!

  4. Mazama

    Stock market futures steady to up in pre-market since crony capitalism benefits lots of large corporations. Notably, Smith & Wesson (SWHC) is up 212% the past 12 months and up almost 7% in pre-market trading this AM.

    Bond market is opening up sharply – i.e., interest rates are falling – in apparent anticipation that the Obama Depression will continue full speed ahead.

  5. Inagua

    Entitlement spending will eat us up, but not for a very long time, as the European example shows. It will continue at a high rate until the government can no longer borrow the money to pay for it. And that is decades away, based on the European example, and the fact that the feds can currently borrow all they want at historically low interest rates.

    We are in Year Five of what is going to be at least a 20-year period of low growth, low employment, and lower standards of living.

  6. Rivman

    I already told my voting-age daughter during her celebration that her inheritance will be going to the government.

  7. AJ

    I can’t think of any President, more than Carter, Johnson, W, or Nixon that needed to be sent packing more than Obama, but we may have just dodged a bullet of getting the exact same Obama like agenda joined at the hip to the neocons, who would have imposed Greek like austerity and never ending war along with the alleged Mormon mafia. I mean who was Romney going to put in charge of what?

    The people have spoken and they chose the devil they knew over the devil they didn’t. Long live the people, however ill informed they may be. The Republicans could of won, they could have siezed the momentum and the enthusiasm that was the Ron Paul liberty movement, but chose to break their own rules, to disappear all the votes from districts that would have put Paul over the top in Iowa, and from shutting down the districts that would have made him the winner in Maine (the liberal dominated media was all to happy to help). They proved that the Republican leaders are willing to openly stomp out any movement within the party and that they are about dictatorship and not the process of ligitimate liberty as put forward in the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights. Maybe it’s something Boehner can cry over: it might touch a soft spot in Barney Frank’s heart.

  8. Anonymous

    Obama is right, we are stupid

  9. Brian S.

    I am going to celebrate by applying to all the credit card companies whose offers I get regularly in the mail. I will make the token $20 payments and run up all the debt I can with no intention of ever paying any of it back. So my credit score approaches zero. Who cares? I already own my house, though with all the unpaid-for stuff I’ll be buying on my endless sprees, it may get small rather quickly. I know: I’ll get Fannie or Freddie to get me a new one. They friend people with bad credit. I’ll get you to be my broker.
    What’s the BIGGEST house in Greenwich? Go ahead. You may as well start spending your commission now.

  10. Balzac

    Entitlement spending is the reef on which the boat will crash – Zero Hedge is right. But the reef is invisible. The average voter evidently doesn’t believe the government’s finances will crash, or that it will matter to him.

    Last night we learned (again) that a positive message wins. (Sure Obama’s message is baloney, but it’s positive baloney). Personally, Romney is a very positive fellow. But not enough women/hispanics/blacks/young people viewed his message as positive and optimistic.

    Our conservative policies are the right ones. But our policies seem too dour to too many. Dour for hispanics, dour for the suburban mommies who care about abortion, dour for the poor, and for the union members.

    What instructions and advice would you give the Republican party?

    • I despair at any message remotely resembling the truth ever reaching the minds of the electorate – the desire to avoid factual reality is too strong. Cut taxes, but don’t cut my entitlement spending. Bring us free, non-polluting energy: as one NYT pundit said recently, “even if it’s not possible, we need it”. And in the new world, needs will be met, impossible or not. We don’t want to hear truth, we want fairy tales – four years ago, when Obama was first elected, I said that this was a great chance for realists because given a full term of the Democrats getting everything they wanted, the opportunity to implement all their schemes, the economy would fail and people would look for an alternative. Instead Obama, with the full-throated support of the national media, blamed the failure on Bush, a man who hasn’t been seen in Washington since 2008. Someone in today’s WSJ repeats my mistake then, by positing that four more years of failure will deprive Obama and his crowd of the Bush excuse but he’s wrong, as I was – there will be another scapegoat invented, another boogy man inflated and set loose to scare the gullible and never, ever will the mobs’ masters concede that their failure is due to their policies and principles.

      A recent example may be seen in the political and press class’s reaction to Hurricane Sandy’s destruction. Scientists and even plain old sensible people have warned for decades that low lying cities like NY and homes built on barrier islands are doomed to be savaged by the sea. But people like to live on the beach and no one wants to spend money protecting the massive infrastructure of a city as large as Manhattan and so they do nothing. When disaster struck, as was inevitable, those responsible cast about and found something else to blame: global warming. “This would never have happened if it weren’t for evil mankind and his oil companies”. The beauty of this claim is that politicians are excused from having to divert money from popular entitlement programs and even basic services like police and fire protection and can instead pass new regulations that will accomplish nothing while crippling the economy – an expense, to be sure, but one not noticed by the hoi polloi.

      And so it goes. Looting will alway be more popular than working, “tell me a story” more soothing than “tell me how it is”. The government grows larger and more powerful every year, our fellow citizens cheer on that growth and scurry desperately to find someone who will maintain their delusion and the decline continues with the ultimate result inescapable: what can’t go on, won’t.

      With any luck, the whimpering, final collapse into a failed nation will be deferred until I’m gone. And then I won’t care.

  11. Balzac

    I think Inagua hits it on the head.

    As for that fringe character Ron Paul – libertarians have lots of good principles, but setting aside mainstream candidates with a chance to win, in order to back marginal candidates with NO chance is…… like pissing in our best blue suit: it feels really good for about a minute.

  12. Al Dente

    We live in a country where 100,000,000 million zombies are walking around with ear buds jammed in their skulls, listening to lyrics like “rape dat ho, shoot da police, kill yo bossman.” And we can’t understand why they don’t vote for common sense.

  13. Anonymous

    Take the GOP back from the social kooks. People did not ride dinosaurs. GOP sold us out to paid nasty pundits who do nothing but alienate rationale people.

  14. Peg

    I would tell the Republican party to remain the party of freedom in fiscal issues and small government – but extend it to social issues, too. THAT is why Romney lost yesterday; because Republicans give the left the ammunition to demonize them with women’s rights, gay civil liberties, etc., etc.

    If Republicans can’t be for personal freedom everywhere – then our goose truly is cooked (if indeed it is not already).

    My liberal friends are all whooping it up. For me, however, it is a sad day in America.

  15. Hemp4367

    The Republican Party has got to stop pandering to the religious right. That is keeping many of us from even (re)considering voting Republican. Period, end of story.

  16. Georgie

    The Republican party was its own worst enemy. These wacko Senate pols in Missouri and Indiana hurt the overall party with their insipid and ignorant remarks. Republicans need to regroup, reform, and change or I see future elections with the same outcome. Demographics are against the party ever winning again. Change or lose.

  17. Westchesterer

    Inagua: The government can’t borrow for the entitlements. They’re printing money to pay for them. Europe can’t borrow for entitlements. They’re printing too. There are no lenders anymore, only borrowers on the back of central banks. The game of borrow from someone who’s productive and spend is OVER. At least the productive person received a yield. Now it’s – steal from those who have to spend and redistribute.

    Currency counterfeiting (aka printing) doesn’t just harm savers, it harms the middle class and poor. Commodities rise, wages fall, and the poor suffer with higher food, transportation, rental costs.

  18. RaisedinRiverside

    As a moderate who was undecided until very recently, I think the Republican party needs to focus more on the big issue that is their strength (the economy) and less on social issues. Moderates feel alienated by extreme social conservatism, and issues like repealing Roe v Wade and banning gay marriage should not be at the forefront of a mainstream political party. You may say it’s not, that’s just a few fringe members – but that is the perception: that the social coonservatives are pulling the puppet strings and have hijacked the party.

    Romney should have chosen someone like Christie or Rubio rather than Tea Party darling Paul Ryan as running mate and ended every debate and speech by asking “Are you better off now than you were four years ago?” He should have stuck by the policies he had when he was governor, rather than moving far right during the primaries and doing a last minute shuffle back to the middle for the national election. He appeared to lack conviction.

    On a brighter note for you in the GOP – you have a real opportunity to put a strong candidate up for 2016. I think some of the brightest members of your party sat out 2012 with plans to run in 2016.

    • I’m more Tea Party than Republican but I agree with you – the “social issues” doom the Republicans. Trouble is, getting a true limited government type who has no interest in controlling citizens’ private lives past the pro-life anti-gay Republican base may be impossible. I think it’d be worth the risk – we’d pick up more educated women who like the idea of economic freedom but vote with their vaginas than we’d lose in Republican votes on election day, but how to get through the primaries is the conundrum.

  19. Westchesterer

    Romney threw Ron Paul under the bus. In doing so, he chose the path of Bush IV. The people didn’t want Bush IV. The blacks voted for Obama, who is Bush the third, but at least he’s black.

    If Romney gave Ron Paul at platform on the Republican convention this might be a different day. The bright part is that (1) a true free market and small government candidate gets a shot for the nomination in 2016 and (2) Obama and socialism is going to be the blame for economic malaise and (3) if Romney won free market capitalism would be attacked when the economy didn’t recover.

    We’ll slug on like we did in the last 4 years. Unless something blows up in Europe or China, economically, and drags us down.

  20. Al Dente

    They’ll build a food stamp office on your grave.

  21. Georgie

    Looking at across CT Dem results only shows why this state will crater and fall into the fiscal cliff. We desperately need a new governor who can change the trajectory of a bloated, overly paid work force and entitlements. But, how in this overwhelmingly liberal state? And, a true fiscal conservative Republican not the fake-pseudo McMahon version.

    We need new fresh Republican blood in this state.

    • Connecticut has survived the loss of its manufacturing and insurance base because of its proximity to NYC and the financial industry. Taxes from Fairfield County, where so many financial industry folks live, have been carrying the state for years and thus allowing the rest of the state’s citizens to ignore economic reality. It will be interesting to see what happens when our Hartford Democrats, in alliance with Manhattan’s and D.C.’s, drive the financial services from our area and even our country. Who will subsidize high-speed railroads to nowhere, empty “express bus” routes from New Britain to Hartford, and fill the maw of state workers’ unions? Stand by. Or leave, if you’re smart.

  22. Inagua

    “The government can’t borrow for the entitlements.”

    Westchesterer – Yes it can. The federal government gets money from three sources, taxes, borrowing and printing. Since dollars are fungible, it is impossible to say which specific dollar funds which specific government expenditure, but in the aggregate all three sources funds all government expenditures, including entitlements.

  23. Inagua

    “Trouble is, getting a true limited government type who has no interest in controlling citizens’ private lives past the pro-life anti-gay Republican base may be impossible.”

    Chris, No trouble at all. He just ran and got less than 1% of the vote, including mine. His name is Gary Johnson, and he is the distinguished former two-term governor of New Mexico.

  24. Mr. 85 Broad St.

    As a lifelong republican, I fear we are in for 40 years in the wilderness. It will take a generation to repair the distrust the party has engendered in the african american and hispanic communities and no republican will win the presidency until that happens. It will take that long for people to finally get the joke on fiscal responsibility, but only after much suffering by all.

  25. Cos Cobber

    Gang, While I think everyone has made valid points, I think will be beyond the tipping point. People vote with their pocket book and for many boomers and 47% percenters the democrats offer more than the republicans for their bottom line. The Democrats are the party of more and public shows no signs of rejection. Look at Europe, its 20 years ahead of us on the road to socialize serfdom and despite all its debt laden challenges the public remains addicted to the government’s helping hand and continues to elect the same type of leadership.

    It will take a special confluence of circumstances for any Republican to win the white house for now and the foreseeable future. We are beyond the tipping point. The only arena Republicans remain viable in every state is for governorships.

    And Westchester is absolutely right, it appears – for now – that we can continue to print money and probably can continue to do so until there is a true alternative world reserve currency.

  26. Yes, time to leave the Blue state madness and begin planning anew in a solidly red state.

  27. Cos Cobber

    CF, I believe Obama may seek to offer a state pension fund bailout in his final hours of his second term. Doing so would cement CA, IL, NY, CT, etc as blue states for another generation or more as their budgets would suddenly balance thereby permitting continued spending. He’ll find a crafty way to make it happen and if not, he’ll just sign another unchecked executive order.

  28. Demmerkrat Patriot

    Moderates feel alienated by extreme social conservatism, and issues like repealing Roe v Wade and banning gay marriage should not be at the forefront of a mainstream political party. You may say it’s not, that’s just a few fringe members – but that is the perception: that the social coonservatives are pulling the puppet strings and have hijacked the party.

    Where is the socially responsible, fiscally conservative Republican party? What happened to them? When did we descend into “Karl Rove” campaigns? I hope that party returns ….

  29. Demmerkrat Patriot

    It will be interesting to see what happens when our Hartford Democrats, in alliance with Manhattan’s and D.C.’s, drive the financial services from our area and even our country.

    The retail rents on Greenwich Avenue will go back down ….

  30. Walt

    Dude –
    Barry is the polar opposite of everything that made this country great. He is creating an entitlement society, essentially buying elections. We are creating a “Buy me stuff” society. We are killing innovation, creativity, bravery.

    Thomas Jefferson said “To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father’s has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association—the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.”

    Ben Franklin, our greatest President, shared this view. They wanted to create a society where people could flourish and succeed. If we didn’t have this culture, would Barry Manilow have written the Star Spangled Banner? Would Lincoln ever have been President, only to meet a tragic death at the Chrysler Theater? Would Sargent York have invented the peppermint pattie?
    I THINK NOT!!

    As a country, the majority has chosen to take the path of least resistance, which inevitably leads downhill. They are just to stupid to realize it.
    Your Pal,
    Walt

  31. Anonymous

    sniff, sniff…SMELL the money trail. That is why we can’t get reasonable decisions for either party. The republics are so stupid. They play the game with mediocre pawns. I’m actually interested in voting for the brains behind these monarchy queens. We are getting screwed all over the place from federal all the way down to the town of Greenwich. I’m so glad all those old nasty ladies at town hall have jobs and pensions but the public still doesn’t have side walks or electricity. Yes, they have done a great job at the recovery but how about spending a little on PREVENTION and quality of life. Instead, it is apparent to even the lowest common fool that every politician is out to line his own pockets and f*ck the community or country if takes too much effort, thinking or cooperation.

  32. Anonymous

    McCain had more votes than Romney!

  33. anonymous

    If you want to figure out what’s wrong with the Republican party look no farther than LInda McMahon. Cash over credentials, style over substance, and a basic cynical view of that the electorate will buy a candidate like a breakfast cereal based on market research and snappy packaging.

  34. Anonymous

    Don’t forget, if we cut gov’t we will lose a lot of jobs because they are the single largest employer. This is like watching a bad magic act. No one wants to look at worse job #s but truth is we need another industry besides the post office.

    • Government jobs used to be paid for by taking money away from private individuals and diverting it, so no net jobs resulted. Now that we pay for them by merely printing money with no intention (or ability) of ever making good on those dollars the equation may have changed: you’d have ask an economist.
      But common sense tells me nothing good of it.

  35. CatoRenasci

    The Republican coalition of social and fiscal conservatives simply doesn’t work at a national level. At a state level, in socially conservative states, it can, but at a national level, no. Fiscal conservatives can be elected with the support of social conservatives, but social conservatives are never electable outside of the Bible Belt. Moderate and independent voters, who might otherwise vote for fiscal conservatives, will simply have nothing to do with social conservative candidates.

    If the existing coalition is to survive, it is the social conservatives who have to take the back seat – that’s what happened when the Tea Party took the House. Whenever the social cons dominated outside of the deep South, disaster.

    More likely, the Republicans have to go the way of the Whigs. A new party needs to be created with massive defections from the Republicans, a party as committed to fiscal conservatism as the original Republicans were to abolition.

  36. another stb 4 me

    let’s face it the popular vote was about race (50% to 48%) and the electoral college vote was about special interests (303 to 206); it’s clear who won this election by an overwhelming majority. the republican party needs to broaden its tent to accomodate the tapestry that re elected the president. – romney and mccain’s advisors read it wrong; the smart money will not follow them down that path a third time.

  37. anony-moose

    Inagua
    Chris, No trouble at all. He just ran and got less than 1% of the vote, including mine. His name is Gary Johnson, and he is the distinguished former two-term governor of New Mexico.

    Ross Perot, Nader, and other have taken the luster out of voting 3rd party, for a lot of voters. Nobody wants another spoiler effect.

    I propose a radical fix to this problem: switch our federal elections to the STV (single transferable vote) system. It’s ranked voting.

    For president, you might find yourself voting for two candidates, ranked by preference. If your first choice is eliminated from contention, your vote automatically switches over to your second choice. This lets us vote for the guy we really like, without worrying about our choice helping the guy we really hate.

  38. I can barely breathe I am so crestfallen with O’s huge victory. Yes, Romney had his faults, and so does the GOP as a party, but what made me so sad was when I realized Obama, in the span of 4 years, has taught our children it is better to receive than give. What kind of effing message is that? A quick example: Over the years I have helped a small community in rural North Carolina. I pay for their church meals for the homeless and assorted other little things. In speaking with the town leade last week, asking him what they could use or want, he flat out told me that when Obama wins, they will get all they need FREE from the government. I was speechless. Here I am, offering to send a blank check, and I’m told no thanks, your TAXES now will take care of their needy. I sat down and wept.

    We’re on day 10 of no power. Being white in a white town with money gets no rush work by our Governor to force ConEd. NOW, were I black and poor……

    I am going to take a few weeks to regroup, take a vacation, and unplug from political overload.

    Happy Hunting, Chris

  39. Anonymous

    When reading the following, please keep in mind that the United States of America was designed as a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy.
    ****************************************
    The premise of democracy is majority rule. The postulate of democracy is societal leveling, social equality, and egalitarianism. The presumption of is that all people are equal in status, equal in ability, and equal in reason. Thus the practice of democracy make the incompetent the equal of the competent, the inept the equal of the able, the lazy the equal of the industrious, and the ignoramus the equal of the intelligent.

    All men are _not_ equal in competence, ability, or intelligence. Because the combined efforts of the incompetent, inept, lazy, and ignorant can (rightfully), never hope to equal the individual efforts of competent, able, industrious, and intelligent the former will, out of envy, form factions against the latter.
    These factions are never organized for the purpose of raising the low to the standards of the high, instead they are formed for the expressed purpose of dragging the high down to the level of the low. The concept of democratic government expressed by the socialists of the Democratic Party, their antagonists of the quasi-socialist Republican Party, and the international socialist of the New World Order, is nothing less than an intentional effort to make the competent slaves of the incompetent, the able slaves of the inept, and the intelligent slaves of the ignorant.

    Democracy is government by mediocracy. Democracy is nothing less than the rule of the mob.

    - The Resister, Vol. 1, No. 1

  40. Romney got 27% of the Hispanic vote, and they voted big time. W got 40% in 2004, and he won. All the Hispanic/immigration hate and race baiting came back to haunt the GOP. Self deportation, send them back, you name it; it was stupid. The GOP has become the old white guy party, like many people on this blog.:) Wising up to being more inclusive has to be done, and done quickly. Boehner has to tell the Southern racists to look at the demographics. Lindsay Graham said it before the election!!

    • I agree with you about outreach to Hispanics, Bob. The black vote is gone forever, because they have settled for being a permanent underclass dependent upon government handouts and prefer things that way – they won’t be leaving their Democrat masters in our time, at any rate. But they’re just 12% of the population and we can write them off, just as society has. Hispanics, on the other hand, haven’t all succumbed to that hopelessness and a party offering economic growth and opportunity might still appeal – if we can keep them off welfare long enough for them to believe they can be part of the American dream.
      How to accomplish this is the big issue – amnesty for illegals is almost a non-starter but so is deportation of millions of people who are living here and working hard. Friedman said we could have open borders or a welfare state, but not both. I think the best we can do is to acknowledge that our borders are open and try to divert the influx away from welfare. I doubt that will happen, but what else can we try?

  41. Chief Scrotum

    If repubs cant beat Obama, they need to consider giving up the koch brothers money, the fox news and think about a new deal. Its scary that O-man and R-guy are the best we have.

    But, I am now convinced between Obama and the Warren lady, that I will be able to buy that Greenwich mansion for much less this year.

    Thanks Dems!

    • Chief, if you can point me to what exactly Koch money has done to harm you or this country, I’d appreciate it. Other than that, I agree with your estimate for Greenwich mansion prices.

  42. RJ

    “As a moderate who was undecided until very recently,”

    1. I don’t believe you. Later in your post you write “On a brighter note for you in the GOP”, which tips your hand.

    2. Anybody who was undecided in this election was monumentally stupid, and I doubt you are that.

  43. RJ

    JD Junkyard wrote: “Yes, time to leave the Blue state madness and begin planning anew in a solidly red state.”

    Demographics are going to make that harder. Even now, Texas is being Californicated by people who are leaving the dying state but are too dumb to understand why it is dying. So they vote blue and eventually shift the state’s position. Happened already to Colorado and Arizona. Just like happened to New Hampshire as the M*ssh*les moved north.

  44. Cos Cobber

    Correct RJ, the trends in the remaining large red states are also tilting away from Reps.

    Interesting read Cato, sounds right to me.

  45. AJ

    The idea that a third party vote is a wasted vote is nonsense. The only wasted vote is one for the two mainstream parties because they are just different mid-level management teams working for the same company, the international bankers / military industrialists, turning out the same product with different brand labels — the only real difference is the content of their speeches. Voting for either of the two main parties just encourages and endorses their bad behavior. Everyone should vote third party or why bother; just stay home. I think I would prefer the Yogic Bouncing party over the Marxist Leninists.

  46. Chief Scrotum

    Chris- The Kochs are known for their, shall we say, curious and inventive ways of doing business. Does it hurt me? No, but its not what I would want my children to do. And having their name on Lincoln Center or Deerfield’s science building, doesnt really change where the money came from.

    But its their money and if they and Rove choose to pay “volunteers” to canvas or airtime or whatever, who cares? It is good for GDP, right?

    I saw your comments about Zillow posting LisPendens/foreclosure notes on house listings. I noticed one town had over 20% of their listings in that category – I was pretty surprised. Thanks for the tip.

  47. Anonymous

    that’s it, i’m renouncing my citizenship and moving to port chester.

  48. RaisedinRiverside

    RJ: You don’t believe what, that I’m a moderate? I choose not to register with either party as I don’t believe that one party is always right (frankly I am not a fan of the leadership in either party). That doesn’t make me monumentally stupid, it makes me capable of rational thought and gives me the ability to think before blindly voting down party lines. Maybe you should try it sometime.

    • I’ll admit that I’m inclined to agree with RJ that no moderate could possibly vote for a man like Obama who is going to jerk the Supreme Court radically leftward and unleash the EPA on our country in a way never before seen since its (the EPA’s) creation, but I have several friends who would all describe themselves as “moderates” yet who voted for Obama too, so I guess there’s room here for disagreement. At the very least, there’s room for a Socratic dialogue where one might test the logical ending point of support for a man espousing Obama’s positions because, perhaps, you might see the errors of your ways : )

  49. Riverslide

    I don’t think we have to get all racial on the Hispanic issue. They voted overwhelmingly for Obama simply because they are mostly low income. To attract them, we have to do what need to do to win generally: simplify the tax code down to a page or two (but leave the progressive aspect in it) and get rid of all the deductions and exclusions and BS that the wealthy are perceived as using so effectively. And vow never again to bail out Wall Street. Romney’s support for the bail out of AIG/Goldman Sachs but not GM was impossible to comprehend.

    All the talk of social issues, like immigration and “women’s issues”, being wedge issues, is just such BS.

    And let’s face it. Romney got crushed in that last debate. He had the exact same foreign policy as Obama, but somehow thought he’d win by simply looking more presidential (whatever that bullshit term means) than Obama. Really, what was their substantive foreign policy difference: tougher sanctions on Iran, tighter relationship with Israel, quicker reinforcements to diplomats under attack. It is doubtful he’d deliver on any of those, and in any event those are not differences that Joe six pack gives much of a crap about.

  50. Inagua

    Riverside,

    While there is significant diversity of opinion among them on many matters, there is one point on which they are almost unanimous — the absolute right of anyone from anywhere to come to this country anytime they want. Almost all Latinos view any talk of secure borders as a racial insult. This is especially true of Mexicans, most of whom believe that California and much of the Southwest was stolen from Mexico.

  51. Anon58

    Somehow, the Republicans have to jettison the kooky radical right-wingers. How to do that? Your guess is as good as mine. The evangelicals are driving the moderates right into the arms of the Democrats.

  52. Riverslide

    Inagua,
    I’m afraid you’re completely wrong on both points. The lawful ones are generally opposed to unlawful immigration, but they would definitely want accommodation for illegals brought here as kids (Obama and Romney’s position) and probably some sort of break for longtime illegals (Obama’s position, and as a practical matter, Romney’s too (no one believed the hardline position he took to win the primary.))
    Also, yes we stole much of the Southwest, but that is only an issue for a lunatic fringe of the American Hispanic population. Most of them are at least part European, and partly responsible for stealing Mexico from the indians, so they are mature and generally over the issue.
    No, they perceived Romney as the Wall St. candidate, period.

  53. Inagua

    “…the American Hispanic population…. perceived Romney as the Wall St. candidate, period.”

    Right. That must be why they gave that non-Wall Street candidate John McCain, who has worked virtually his entire life for the federal government, a whopping 31% of their vote versus a measly 27% for the Wall Street guy.

    Do you think that the Republican position on secure borders and opposition to the Dream Act could possibly play a small role in Latino attitudes towards Republicans? Do you know any Latinos?

  54. Anonymous

    Chris, re your opening comments above, please take a look at “The Development : Nine Stories” by John Barth available at the Perrot and Greenwich libraries. I think “Toga Party” may strike a chord with you, based upon your comment, as it did with me. I read it recently, and I can’t get it out of my mind. John Barth: brilliant and funny.

  55. Riverslide

    No, those factors played a only very small role. Yes, I know Hispanics; that’s who informed me directly on this topic.

    McCain also supported the Wall St. bailout.

    Plus, in 2008 the Hispanic vote was largely influenced by Obama’s skin color, but only minimally so this time.

    Bottomline: the Republicans can win with a populist who is eager to take on big money and Wall Street. Your Paul Ryans and Marco Rubios aren’t going to win simply by ethnic pandering.

  56. Inagua

    “Bottomline: the Republicans can win with a populist who is eager to take on big money and Wall Street.”

    Wrong. No Republican is going to be competitive in a presidential election for at least a generation. The demographics are determinative — Blacks, public employees, Latinos, Jews, Asians, single women, and under 30s are now a majority of the electorate.

  57. Riverslide,polls have shown that most Hispanics, legal or illegal, believe in open borders and amnesty. Many now legal Hispanics were illegal before the last Amnesty, and most have illegal relatives here, or family members in their home countries wishing to come here. They also are accustomed to politicians in their countries of origin who promise handouts in return for votes. Unless there is a strong cultural shift among this group, they will vote Democratic.