Chris R sends along this great video of US citizens standing up to government goons. I’m impressed by these patriots’ cojones.
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I would also add it is never a good idea to talk to the police or any other law enforcement without counsel.
I wish Chris would re-post that wonderful lecture on the subject, given by a practicing criminal lawyer to a class of law students.
I disagree. There is nothing improper, unreasonable or invasive about asking a person at an international border highway checkpoint about citizenship. I have crossed into and out of Mexico on foot and by car many times, and have frequently been asked to show a driver’s license. BFD. How else do you expect the Border Patrol to do their job? Have you ever flown international? Checked into a hotel? Showing ID is a necessary and reasonable requirement for many aspects of modern life.
Inagua, that was my first thought, but watching the first two scenes – and I didn’t go past that – the check points seemed to be just that: random roadblocks, not border crossings. I agree with yu that every country has the right to stop travelers at their border – I only wish we did that here in the US – but random stops? “Am I being detained”, “am I free to leave”, are excellent, and valid questions.
Chris – California has several of these checkpoints within 50 miles of the border. Very good way to check for recently arrived illegals who were shepherded across by coyotes and handed off to waiting vehicles for the trip inland.
This is about intimidation, harassment and conditioning citizens into giving up their rights and illegally searching their vehicles, and has nothing to do with finding illegal aliens. They could ask for a driver’s license and registration and that would be the end of it. Odd that some states give driver’s licenses to illegals and others want to. Odd that when Arizona gives illegals over to ICE, they release them. Odd, that because of sequester Obama released thoudands of illegals into the population. Odd, that they know where to find millions of illegals but all they want to do is give them citizenship. Odd that when illegals use identity theft to obtain employment, the federal government doesn’t have a problem with it. Odd that you need to have identification to drive a car, collect social secutity, or open a bank account but not to vote. In short, this has nothing to do with finding illegals, unless it’s to give them some free benefits at the taxpayer’s expense, and everything to do with expanding police state powers.
In fact, Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick wanted a Drunken illegal who murdered a US citizen let off the hook because of his unique cultural background and inability to understand English. Apparently, Patrick just got his wish:
‘Judge Rules Illegal Alien DUI Killer Incompetent to Stand Trial, Cites ‘Unique Cultural Background’’
It was one of the most brutal DUI deaths we’ve seen at the hands of an illegal alien – and we’ve seen a lot (here, here, here and here, for starters).
In 2011, Ecuadorean illegal Nicolas Guaman, drunk at nearly three times the legal limit, ran through a stop sign in Milford, Mass., striking 23-year old Matthew Denice on his motorcycle. Denice was not killed by the impact, but died as Guaman tried to flee the scene, dragging Denice’s body nearly 1/4 mile under his pickup truck, until bystanders forced him to a stop. Police said Guaman showed “not a flicker of emotion” when they told him Denice was dead.
A gruesome death at the hands of a soulless monster. And as with so many other illegal alien DUI killings, it never should have happened had the illegal not been protected by sanctuary policies. You see Guaman had a previous criminal record, and has been arrested on charges of assault and battery on a police officer and at least one public employee and also of breaking and entering. But because Gov. Deval Patrick refuses to participate in the Federal-State “Secure Communities” program wherein suspects’ fingerprints are sent to the FBI to be checked for immigration status, Guaman was never deported, as required by law.
So Matthew Denice’s killer had no less than the Governor of Massachusetts as an accomplice. Denice’s family has been through hell with this case in the past two years. And today the hell got even worse at the hands of a despicable judge appointed by Gov. Patrick:
The illegal immigrant who was drunk driving when he hit and dragged a Milford man to his death has been ruled incompetent to stand trial.
Judge Janet Kinton-Walker says Nicolas Guaman’s “unique cultural background” and language barrier means that he doesn’t understand the court process. The court also said that he lacks the ability to consult with his attorney properly.
The judge ordered Guaman’s attorney to find an interpreter and educate him on the court process.
Judge Kinton-Walker was appointed in 2009 by Gov. Deval Patrick.
Insanity. A killer can’t be tried because he is too uneducated, or needs an interpreter? Absolute nonsense. Maureen Maloney, Matthew Denice’s mother said “I just can’t believe that he was found mentally incompetent based on his education level and unique language….I think this gives the defense attorney the opportunity to request the bail for Guaman,” said Maloney. “Up until now, he has not been eligible for bail, so he may be eligible to be released on bail because of this recent decision.”
FOX 25′s Melissa Mahan asked Maloney whether she believes Guaman does not understand the court process in the United States because of his language barrier. …”
“This is about intimidation, harassment and conditioning citizens into giving up their rights and illegally searching their vehicles, and has nothing to do with finding illegal aliens.”
AJ – Please think about this for a minute. Suppose you want to prevent people from entering the country illegally. The southern border is desert for many miles. People walk across it every day. Some of them make it to roads where there are vehicles waiting their to take them inland so they can “live in the shadows.” Do you really think there is something wrong with stopping cars near the border and asking the occupants if they are citizens? Unless you favor open borders and want to let anyone live here, you must have some method of attempting to “secure the border.” The video tape shows a very, very mild attempt to do that. The policy failure here is that these agents lacked the power to do more than ask these provocateurs if they were citizens. This video was made by a Hispanic Open Borders Advocate who was deliberately using US law to show the lack of enforcement powers that we grant Border Patrol agents, and you fell for it by saying it was “about intimidation.”
Okay, Inagua, you’ve made a very good argument-I’ll rethink my initial reaction.
Checkpoints Near the Border
Be aware that DHS agents have recently set up constitutionally-questionable “security checkpoints” up to 100 miles inside U.S. territory. If you should drive into one of these roadblocks, you are not required to answer the agent’s questions (usually starting with “Are you a United States citizen?”). Nor are you required to consent to any searches.
Visit http://www.checkpointusa.org/blog to learn more about this program and check out the video below. By actively “flexing” their rights, these brave citizens expose the techniques DHS agents (and police in general) use to trick and intimidate citizens into compliance. Also take note of the practical necessity of flexing your rights repeatedly.
As this video from the flex your rights link above shows, you are not required to answer the citizenship question at DHS roadblocks. The agents know that, so their badgering would be what most people would consider intimidation, or at the very least harassment. Of course if you wish to anwer the citizenship question, that is also your privilege. The Flex Your Rights website outlines what your rights and obligations are at the border and at various types of roadblocks:
AJ – Check points up to 100 miles from the border may seem “constitutionally-questionable” to you, but to normal, non-paranoid people it seems a very mild and reasonable security measure. Being asked if you are a citizen is far less of a hassle than cashing a check, checking into a hotel, renting a car, flying, or any of a myriad of other quodian tasks. Unless you favor open borders with no check on who is here, this is a very small and reasonable sacrifice to make in a feeble attempt to secure the border.
Do you favor open borders? We have about 10% of Mexico here now, most of which came illegally. How much more of Mexico do you want here?
Inagua, scroll down and read my 9:23 AM post beneath Tokenekebozo, for some reason it posted out of sequence. It is legal for the police to set up a roadblock and ask for license and registration. Citizenship is a meaningless question since you are not legally required to carry proof of citizenship, nor answer a citizenship question, nor grant a request (not order, that’s different) to search your car. I am not for open borders, and these stops, while the government does its best to block voter ID and grant amnesty to tens of millions of illegals is mere theater just like the TSA. How many terrorists has the TSA caught? How many people’s lives have they made miserable?
What I find most objectionable about illegal aliens is that it allows the same type as of abuse that is just being revealed about the IRS. It allows favored employers to higher cheap labor, while unfavored businesses not only can’t compete, but can be put out of business for breaking the law. Remember the border is the border; it’s not a 100 mile no man’s land. By the way, the coast is also considered the border and Greewich is within that one hundred mile zone. May I see a raise of hands please? How many for DHS checkpoints in Greenwich so that you can’t drive from one part of town to another without suffering roadblocks like these? C’mon, I know you all want it. I know you all have illegals working there.
AJ – I think I understand your position: You want border security, but only at the border, right? Checking cars 20 or 30 miles from a desert border (which is what the video showed) is not okay because it is intimidation, right? And to underscore the point, you are sure no one in Greenwich wants a check point in their town.
But very few Mexicans come illegally into the country through Greenwich, so your last point is really just silly. And you first point, that the border stops at the border, is also silly when one considers the terrain. It is scrub desert for many miles on ether side of the border. And there are no check points. People just walk across. Which is why they choose that point of entry. Virtually no illegal tries to walk through the check point at Tijuana.
No offense, but your position makes no sense. Illegals don’t come in through Greenwich or Tijuana; they come across the desert, and the best way to stop them is on the roads out of the desert.
Illegals don’t come in through Greenwich
No, they come to Greenwich, and not just the Irish.
With you living in southern Cal, I can certainly understand your point of view: I’m sure you feel inundated. But I made the Greenwich comparision for the very reason that it is ridiculous.
They are also doing it along the northern border in places like Vermont, New York, and with one reader in CF’s “I don’t know why I didn’t expect this” post saying that it’s going on in Cleavland, all of which where the threat of people sneaking across the border is almost nonexistant. They are also doing it in Florida where the only non citizens you’re likely to find are “Dryfoots”, and they can stay.
Again, no one is required to carry proof of citizenship, so the exercise is pointless. And what are they going to do if they find one: register him to vote and give him food stamps. In fact, the Feds have recruiters going to trailer parks to find illegals, not to deport them but to sign them up for food stamps.
As far as Greenwich goes, or some other coastal state like Virginia, the places are packed full of illegals, and I’m sure there are plenty of citizens who would have no problem cutting rich folks lawns for somewhere between fifty to one hundred dollars an hour.
Again, I ask are there any Greenwich residents who would like to see DHS roadblocks in your area, to rid yourself of illegals and get local citizens off the dole and back working again. You owe it to yourselves those illegals never have insurance. C’mon, speak up, you can speak your mind, or are you all enjoying that cheap labor too much to let it go.
He’s not a “patriot”, he’s a douchebag. And they’re not “government goons”, they’re just ordinary guys who would like a little cooperation while trying to do a thankless friggin job. Ordinary guys that might just live around the corner from him, coach little league and do a number of other things to make life better while Professor Assclown is running around delivering lectures on “rights”. I’d bet every one of them is a better man than him. Being the “patriot” he is, Assclown feels obliged to bust somebody’s shoes so he can make his little video on how he stared down tyranny and preserved our freedoms for another day. Thank you sir. Very helpful. Very brave. If someone kicked sand in his face, law enforcement (and yes the Border guys are law enforcement) would be the first guys Know-It-All would go running to. He should take his tinfoil hat, shove it up his oddball ass and reflect that his precious rights are accompanied by responsibilities. One of those responsibilities is not giving people shit when they ask a simple question in a civil manner in the course of doing a job that any reasonable person would view as necessary.
Again, license and registration, proof of insurance is sufficient and legal. Whether I’m a US citizen or not is a meaningless question unless you need a passport to walk and drive in America. Are passangers in vehicles now required to carry proof of citizenship? I didn’t watch that video because I’ve seen many others, but if they were profiling, that would be one thing and at least one step closer to probable cause, but they are stopping and searching cars of people who are very obviously from not south of the border — very similar what’s happening with the TSA in airports as opposed to Israeli style security. If they wanted to secure the border they could easily do it with infrared equipped drones and sensors. If they want to stop illegals they should stop trying to grant them amnesty. I’ll take them as serious when you need proof of citizenship, or at least photo ID to vote in an election.
And of course we need the millitary to control kite festivals:
But, not to vote in many Obozo-leaning states. ID? Not necessary…”The voting booth is over there, and if you enjoy the process, we’ll arrange for you to vote a few times more, as long as you’re pulling for The Kenyan Messiah.”
Very interesting, I assume given that the border patrol let these citizens go that such questions are voluntary and they do not have authority to ask them? I do wonder though how US citizens expect the border patrol to do their job if everybody starts answering the same way.
It’s ironic that the people standing up the border guards and insisting on their rights as free citizens are probably also more likely to complain about illegal aliens that docile liberals like Fudrucker.
But hey, a man’s got to do what a man’s got to do.
Was this filmed at the NY /CT border ?
If so which way were they going ?
Tea Party bumper stickers ?
I don’t object to the asking of that question whatsoever. What if the person traveling is not a citizen, and is somehow in the country illegally and intent on doing something bad? This would be a simple way to stop and catch ’em.
It’s a slippery slope, anon. What’s to stop the police from questioning people randomly on the street? “Let me see your papers” is the next step once questioning becomes acceptable.
I think we need to bring back civics classes. So many are so willing–enthusiastic, even–about giving up their rights.
Border Patrol sets up checkpoints in VT on I -91 southbound within 50 miles of the Canadian border. Apparently the BP can still make the pinch if within 50 miles of the Canadian Border?
Yow. I am very thankful this was not the first time I’ve checked in to this fine blog site.
The little articulate crackers that made this film will wake up eventually. The same type of checkpoints are used to find drunken drivers and uninspected vehicles.
Oops. So they were Hispanic? Okay so “the little articulate Hispanics that made this film will wake up eventually”.
Hmmm…now, how come it sounds offensive when I put it that way…?
This was very funny.
it’s gotta be tough to be in law enforcement when there are so many laws.
And so many wise asses
these guys are idiots. truly. they’re as articulate and informed as an online community college dropout can be. “i know my rights.” duhhhhh….
just a group of baiting buffoons, no better than a bleeding liberal democrat seeing justification to take from the productive members of society.
and moreover, seeing someone walk down the street with an ar15 and loaded clip hoisted over the shoulder, i’m sorry but that just makes no sense whatsoever. if i saw that in greenwich, i’d want them slammed to the ground and hauled off.
Maybe these clowns would think differently if someone was shooting at them on occasion…
I’m not sure if you’re referring to the border guards or the protestors being shot at but it’s a horrible prospect either way – all we need is SWAT teams conducting checkpoint stops in our country to really give it that Mexican feel, without the Mexicans themselves.
The “protestors”/4th amendment videofiles…
Yo queiro Taco Bell.
And a side of Kevlar.
Of course the only reason these drivers are able to get away with their defiance is that their cause — “immigrant rights” — is politically correct. If they tried this at a DWI checkpoint, they’d be ripped out of the car, stripped of their licenses for refusing a breathalizer, etc.
“…all we need is SWAT teams conducting checkpoint stops in our country to really give it that Mexican feel, without the Mexicans themselves.”
Chris – We have the Mexicans themselves. About 10% of Mexico lives here now, and with birthright citizenship, chain immigration, and the new bill, it is sure to increase. California is 40% Hispanic. and Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and Colorado are racing to catch up. 75% of Hispanics favor bigger government offering more “services” and they vote 70% Democratic. This has rendered the Republican party moribund at the the state level in California and will have a similar effect nationally as their numbers increase.
have to love ron paul
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