De Blasio and his mob might consider this, but probably won’t

Come on,we're heading south

Leaving Jones Beach

Miami becoming Wall Street South?

Miami is attracting the LeBron James of Wall Street, the Dwyane Wade of Greenwich equity, and the Chris Bosh of Boston — financial titans who are relocating to pay less in taxes and maintain a luxury lifestyle with a glittering social scene.

It’s already the 2nd most popular financial hub in the country after NYC, and The Miami Downtown Development Authority is doing everything it can to make itself attractive to bankers through an initiative called the DWNTWN campaign.

Lloyd Blankfein and Leon Black are rumored to have bought Miami condos recently, and the latest hotshot to move his business there is Mark Spitznagel, founder of hedge fund Universa Investments.

“Florida’s business-friendly policies … offer the perfect environment for us as we expand,” said Spitznagel. “I would expect to see more firms like Universa voting with their feet and relocating to a more hospitable business and tax environment, especially as many local governments are trying to tighten their grip on businesses.”

Of course the trouble with this is that if you move to Miami then you have to live and work in Miami, but the real point is that modern communications have freed the financial industry from Manhattan, and if that city becomes inhospitable, the industry can move. And if they move far away, a lot of Greenwich money will go with it.

38 Comments

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38 responses to “De Blasio and his mob might consider this, but probably won’t

  1. anony

    PLus Bloomberg DOUBLED NYC’s debt.

    Manufacturing gone, finance moving out – when will the denizens realize it’s the 1970’s redux?

    This time the GOP won’t allow a bailout. Too many Detroits goin on – thank you Dems.

  2. anony

    Mayor Bloomberg Doubled New York City Debt to $110 Billion
    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/mayor-bloomberg-doubled-new-york-city-debt-to-110-billion/

    When I heard various nice people parrot the media line that this guy should run for Prez, I could only cringe. It’s impossible to keep up with the media’s efforts to misinform low info voters.

    Usta be low info didn’t vote, now they do thanks to antisocial media.

  3. anony

    Just one more:
    Bloomberg’s worst legacy: The debt bomb
    http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20130110/BLOGS01/301109996

  4. Al Dente

    Miami is a cesspool. They will regret it.

  5. Libertarian Advocate

    The worst part of it is they will still bring their leftist politics with ’em.

  6. Peg

    I have a bridge girlfriend who lived in NYC and has been incredibly successful. A few years ago, however, she moved from her life long home to Boca got purchased an $3 million oceanfront condo for free.

    “Free?!?”

    Yes. Her accountant told her she could no longer afford to live in NY. With the taxes she saved by her move to FL – she could purchase her condo and still stay plus.

    How many other smarty pants who live in NY are going to figure THAT out?

    • EOSredux

      Is that Boca Del Vista, Peg? 🙂

      My retired friends are skipping Florida and ALL heading to North Carolina. Some to the Lakes region close to Asheville. Some to the golfing areas, like Grandfather’s Mountain in Linville, outside Boone; two went to Charlotte to be near more cultural doings, a good hospital, and a university.

      North Carolina is a gem. Low taxes. Good government. My oldest is packing his family up and moving to Tennessee next week. Great job offer. They are eyeing a great house to buy for under $200.000. What’s not to love about that?

  7. Joey

    There is nothing wrong about living in Miami but it certainly is not going to impress anyone like a manhattan zip code. NYC has a high tax and it is partly justified, not for the services, but for the right to live in the cultural capital of the world. If you can’t afford it then you should send yourself to places like Miami, Cayman Islands and Singapore. What you will find is that culture and being on the “in crowd” costs money and exile is usually free.

    Have you ever wondered why the lowest tax places in the US and world are the last you would chose to live in? They are usually hot, lack services and have fewer cultural opportunities. Where you want to live is just like real estate. where there is strong demand there are high prices.

    PS At least the finance types in Miami don’t have to pretend they are cultured anymore.

    • Mazama

      No income tax in Seattle. Never needed air conditioning in 25 years, Services? Culture? Depends in taste, doesn’t it.

      • If rude,pushy snobs is culture, NYC has it, and it’s infected Greenwich. I call it low-life, but heck.

      • CatoRenasci

        If you think fog and rain shrouded, young metrosexuals whose ‘smug’ quotient makes that of San Francisco look low, and a surfeit of graduates of both the ivy league and the most liberal, least academically worthwhile, state colleges (like Evergreen and Humboldt), represents the acme of culture, you’re welcome to it. Think of it culturally as a minor league San Francisco, without any society but the nouveaux riche

        • Joey

          Have you ever been to either of these cities. San Francisco has a small town feel to it. Good food but a little dead. No verve. Everything is happening in Silicon Valley and many of the young tech guys are just living in SF because they can’t stand living in the Suburbs.

        • CatoRenasci

          Joey, I’m a 5th generation Californian – since the gold rush – and from San Francisco. I am not a fan of what it has become and there is truth to your comments about the tech kiddies choosing ‘hip’ SF because they don’t want to live in the Peninsula ‘burbs and the acceptable Marin ‘burbs (Belvedere, Tiburon and (maybe) Sausalito) are too far for a reasonable commute.

          I’ve also spent time in Seattle over the years – had an uncle and a bunch of cousins in the area. It was a total hick town before Microsoft and Amazon, whatever it would like to think of itself. Portland was much more sophisticated.

        • FF

          Cato,

          That’s likely a paraphrase of what they said about you and your friends in the last generation, no?

  8. Connecticut’s estate tax ranges from 7% to 12% on amounts over $2 million. A $10 million estate would pay $912,000 (11.4 percent of $8 million). So for your bridge girlfriend and a lot of others, if your net worth is $10 million, you can move to Florida and get a free $1 million house, courtesy of the avoided CT estate tax.

    Liberal policies keep driving productive people from Connecticut. And when they leave, a lot of related economic activity leaves, too.

    • Milton Friedman

      You are confusing gift and death taxes. The gift tax is 12%, the death tax is 16% on estates over $10 million. NO ONE with wealth dies in CT and most plan the exodus well in advance, hence the migration of productive people to low tax states – FL is booming, not just Miami.

      • A friend, commenting on my intended trip to Florida to do some pig hunting, said “that’s what’s great about Florida: go five miles in from the coast and you’re in pig hunting territory.” I’ve pretty much stayed on the coast the few times I’ve visited, and wasn’t impressed,but now, I may rethink the state.

        • Milton Friedman

          Hunting hogs on palmetto ranch land is awesome, cheap and accessible ( under 2 hours drive) from most FL cities, especially on the Gulf coast. Also, check out FL gun laws – excellent.

  9. It used to be that when driving east on 95, you crossed the Byram River, you got a tax cut. Governor Weicker pissed away our state’s big advantage.

    • CatoRenasci

      But Weicker got a personal tax cut when he did it – the state used to have a 10% dividends and interest tax (essentially a tax on the unearned income of the rentier class who lived primarily in lower Fairfield County). That was cut to 4% when the state put in a 4% tax on the earned incomes of the rest of the residents of the state.

      The deciding votes on the income tax included Greenwich’s own Bill Nickerson, who had taken the pledge to vote against an income tax. But, he was too swayed by his back country friends who saw this as an opportunity to get a personal tax cut while f*cking the rest of the state’s residents who had always seen Greenwich as a cash cow. Result, Greenwich and the rest of lower Fairfield County still pay the freight for the state.

      Florida looks better and better….

  10. Anonymous

    I’m in process of buying a property in FL now. I’m not thinking about estate taxes, I’m thinking about this shitty weather. My heirs can sort out tax issues since it will be their problem, not mine!

  11. Publius

    Those we can do, those that can’t (usually the “middle class”) are left holding the bag. You can still maintain a residence in NYC and be a resident of another state as long as your are careful about the amount of time spent in your second home. A good accountant will keep you out of trouble and there are many whom, particularly in NY, specialize in helping people leave the Big Apple for other more friendly climes. I personally know many wealthy peeps that are now residences of other tax jurisdictions that maintain either a place in Manhattan or a summer home on the East End. I think they spend more time in NY than I do and I am right next door.

    As an aside New York (NY Dept of Revenue) maintains offices in FLA to keep tabs on these wealthy folk that flee the high tax utopia, just to make sure they don’t violate their parole……………………

    • CatoRenasci

      More and more wealthy and even ‘near-wealthy’ New Yorkers are getting out of NYC and even the state. See all of those Florida plates around town? It has to be managed very, very carefully if you spend a fair amount of time in the City, and you have to be very careful how property in the City and NY state are owned (not personally…..) to avoid being still considered a resident. I just wish when they leave, they would not take their voting habits with them….

      • Publius

        http://www.law360.com/articles/511739/ny-residency-ruling-shortens-leash-for-auditors

        Recent NY Court ruling relates to residency and property ownership. Tends to favor the peeps versus the state

        • CatoRenasci

          Interesting case, but the opposite of the usual problem: the fight for most wealthy NYC/NY expats isn’t the “maintains a permanent abode” prong of the test but the “183” days part of the test. If you or your LLC or your trust or company owns an apartment or house for your exclusive use (as opposed, say, to all out-of-town based executives who might use it from time to time), then your only hope is to be out of NY at least 183 days per year. That’s the one you have to track so carefully.

  12. anony

    >>It used to be that when driving east on 95, you crossed the Byram River, you got a tax cut. Governor Weicker pissed away our state’s big advantage.<<

    It was a tax cut for him, the slob. He lied to get into office, saying he was opposed to the income tax. Ten inures after election he worked with the willing Dems. CT has been in decline ever since.

    Sorta like "you can keep your plan".

    • Libertarian Advocate

      Weicker was always a scumbag. In Republican circles his name is synonymous with traitor.

  13. JJM

    I lived in Miami for 11 years, went to UM, undergrad then worked and went to law school. There was a huge exodus from NYC after 9/11 and a majority that I knew were in finance.
    What brought me back to CT was the lifestyle I had learned growing up in FFC. I wanted to raise a family how I was raised, hunting, fishing, skiing, outdoors life, speaking English, not just drinking Dom P on Yachts (for free by the way). Was a great place for my 20’s, now I’m happy to be home. Would be a very hard place, for me anyway, to be married, those latinas are smoking hot! And man do I miss spring beak!
    Miami is know as the city of the thousand dollar millionaire. Very flashy, HUGE wealth gap. While I was there Miami was eclipsed by Detroit as the poorest city in the country.
    Try Wellington if your looking for the Gwch lifestyle in FL or better yet, I’d rather be in Wy with Cheney avoiding state income tax.

  14. GreenITCH

    anecdotally speaking these NYkers are coming up in droves . Not sure if Greenwich will be there destination but personally know 3 couples that have made the move ( 1 – Darien , Westport and Riverside ) . Met a fellow at MAvis while getting tire repaired with two little ones , renting now in Stamford and looking to buy . All set to do the reverse commute and with a young family He said with what he anticipated happening in NYC it was time to pull the cord .

    • Joey

      I am not sure that you can blame this on Blasio but this could just be the natural progression from NYC to the burbs. Two kids and can’t afford or won’t make the sacrifices to stay in the city. The price factor is a new one (since about 2004) that is pushing even professionals from NYC. NYC is turning to be a bit like London. Only or a movie star or shiek can afford to live there comfortably now. I know many lawyers and bankers are suffering in the city because they can’ afford what they want and are too subborn to move to the suburbs. To each his/her own.

  15. Anonymous

    I work at a hedge fund in NYC and live in a modest house in Greenwich. My tax rate in 2014 is over 52% between state taxes, fed, etc. I am actively wondering why I am living here and not in Florida.

  16. Anonymous

    Anon, I hear ya. Hedge funds are relocating offices there (FL) and offshore. Even though we live in CT, what NY picks outta my pocket, and CT stealing and giving nothing back, I wonder what’s the point of being here. Still have to maintain an NYC office though, but that’s a cost of doing biz and a separate matter (affecting the entity itself, not me individually)–or at least not so obviously in-my-face.

    • CatoRenasci

      Maintain the NYC office, rotate executives into the NY office on a one week in, two weeks out basis, while they live in FL (or wherever). Maintain one apartment which they use on a rotating basis for the company’s convenience.